Holley EFI
Holley is basically a start of the art ECU. It's very configurable and very expandable.
The main wiring harness can be used with any ECU but some ECU's have more harnesses than others.
ECU Options
If you need transmission controls for an automatic you will need to use either the Terminator X Max or the Dominator. Otherwise you can run any ECU you want
A full breakdown of all of the capabilities is listed at the bottom of this page.
https://3800wiki.com/tuning_resources/aftermarket_ecu/holley_efi#ecu_options_breakdown
The Terminator X and Terminator X Max are the entry level Holley systems. The HP EFI and Dominator are the more high end systems that have even more capabilities. Most people are going to find the Terminator X is going to do everything they want it to for a lot of use cases. If you have a drag car with a lot of sensors and need tons of advanced tables or traction control though you will likely want to step up to the Dominator system.
Terminator X | Terminator X Max | HP EFI | Dominator | |
cost | $1,249.95 | $1,799.95 | $2,649.95 | $3,149.95 |
waterproof | no | no | yes | yes |
trans control | no | yes | no | yes |
Drive By Wire support | no | yes | no | yes |
internal logging | no | no | yes | yes |
custom inputs | 4 | 4 | 4 | 40 |
custom outputs | 4 | 4 | 4 | 40 |
injectors supported | 8 | 8 | 16 | 24 |
peak and hold injector support | no | no | yes | yes |
NTK wideband support (needed for Methanol) | no | no | yes | yes |
# of 1D custom advanced tables | 5 | 5 | 16 | 16 |
# of 2D custom advanced tables | 5 | 5 | 16 | 16 |
If for whatever reason you don't have enough inputs or outputs you can always expand your ECU using a CAN module.
You can also upgrade your ECU without having to buy a new wiring harness; each shares the same main harness connector and pinout for it.
The Terminator X comes with a 3.5“ LCD touch screen and the wiring harness if you buy the kit. You're almost paying for the harnesses and LCD and receiving a free ECU with it. Then if you want to upgrade down the road you could always buy a different ECU or add a CAN module.
Still not sure?
Go ahead and download the software and play around with it to see if it can do what you're looking for. Terminator and HP/Dominator have their own software
Terminator software:
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/terminator_x/terminator_x_software/parts/TERMINATORXSOFTWARE
Dominator/HP EFI software:
https://www.holley.com/support/fuel_injection/hp_and_dominator_efi/
Typical Build Cost For a Turbo 3800
Generally most turbo stickshift 3800's or turbo 3800's with an old school 350/400/powerglide transmission can step to a Holley for ~$1,600 in today's prices by going with a Terminator X system and modifying the LS1/LS6 harness to use the 3800's crank/cam sensor along with a few other modifications to make it work.
Drivetrain | manual trans, cable throttle | electronic trans, cable throttle | electronic trans, drive by wire | full on race car needing tons of inputs and outputs | |
Which ECU | Terminator X | Terminator X Max | Terminator X Max | Dominator | |
ECU/Harness part # | 550-903 | 550-934 | 550-926 | 550-650 | |
Holley system | $ 1,249.95 | $ 1,799.95 | $ 1,799.95 | $ 3,149.95 | |
Holley 3 bar MAP | $ 111.95 | $ 111.95 | $ 111.95 | $ 111.95 | https://www.amazon.com/Holley-554-107-MAP-Sensor/dp/B004BA7L0W |
Fuel pressure sensor | $ 41.98 | $ 41.98 | $ 41.98 | $ 41.98 | https://www.amazon.com/Pressure-Transducer-Sender-Sensor-Stainless/dp/B00NIK9E10 |
flex fuel sensor (not needed) | $ 57.03 | $ 57.03 | $ 57.03 | $ 57.03 | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073ZQ1G2P |
MAC valve for boost control | $ 23.51 | $ 23.51 | $ 23.51 | $ 23.51 | https://www.amazon.com/Valve-Control-Solenoid-Controller-35A-AAA-DDBA-1BA/dp/B07SSSBBZ2</font> |
USB cable for Holley | $ 65.67 | $ 65.67 | $ 65.67 | $ - | https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/terminator_x/terminator_x_service_parts/parts/558-443 |
ls coil pack | $ 100.00 | $ 100.00 | $ 100.00 | $ 100.00 | https://www.ebay.com/itm/325052552558?epid=1264133034&hash=item4baea4556e:g:MtcAAOSw3xViDFNF |
Typical Cost | $ 1,650.09 | $ 2,200.09 | $ 2,200.09 | $ 3,484.42 |
You could swap out the MAP sensor for an ACDelco 12643955 for about $30, skip the flex fuel sensor, buy some junkyard coils, and you'd probably be able to cut the price down by about $200 for a cheaper alternative. You could also skip the USB cable and just read and write tunes from the touch screen, but that will probably get a little frustrating in the long term.
Installing the Harness
Holley has no harnesses built into it for a 3800 as a kit, but can be configured to work with a 3800 and will just need some wiring harness modifications.
The simplest route seems to be to use the LS1 harness and modify it for the 3800. This allows you to use the LS style coil pack and retire the waste spark ignition system on the 3800.
Here is a breakdown of the sensors and harnesses that you might use:
Harness | lengthening | what harness | what sensor to use |
Crank Sensor | Needs to be lengthened | replace with stock 3800 connector | stock sensor, 3x signal only |
Cam Sensor | Needs to be lengthened | same as LS1 or stock 3800 | stock 3800 sensor |
oil pressure sensor | Needs to be lengthened | same as LS1 or stock 3800 | 3 pin sensor: 2000+ H-body sensor (12677837) |
coolant temp sensor | no modification needed | same as LS1 or stock 3800 | 2 pin sensor |
IAC | Needs to be lengthened | same as LS1 or stock 3800 | stock 3800 |
IAT | no modification needed | same as LS1 or stock 3800 | stock 3800 |
TPS | Needs to be lengthened | replace with stock 3800 connector | stock 3800 |
fuel injectors | no modification needed | same as LS1 or stock 3800 | any EV1 or EV6 depending on what injector harness you bought |
coils | no modification needed | LS1/truck coils | need to replace with LS style coils |
knock sensors | Needs to be lengthened | replace with stock 3800 connector | stock 3800 |
MAP sensor | no modification needed | same as LS1 or stock 3800 | stock 3800 or 2 bar MAP. Otherwise replace connector |
Oxygen sensor | no modification needed | Holley harness | Holley wideband (included with kit) |
low oil switch | Not used | Not used | Not used |
VSS | Not used | Not used | Not used |
A/C pressure | Not used | Not used | Not used |
A/C clutch | Not used | Not used | Not used |
Important Note: Vehicle Speed Sensor
The Holley Terminator X and HP EFI do not have a way that I've seen of accepting a speed sensor signal. To workaround this and still send a speed signal to your speedometer without upgrading to a Terminator X Max or Dominator there are two options most people have done:
You could keep your stock ECU wired into power, ground, ignition voltage, and the speed sensor and use the stock PCM just to convert the VSS sensor signal into a signal for your speedometer. Extend those wires and hide the PCM anywhere you want to.
You could also use a VR to Hall sensor converter box according to some posts on the internet.
Sensors
The 3800 was equipped with different sensors depending on what car the engine went into. Because of this you may want to make sure you have the right sensors that will make the Holley happy.
The coolant temp and oil pressure sensors in particular are the ones to look out for. In general you want to look for sensors with the round 3 pin connector since these are actually sensors that output a voltage based on what they're seeing rather than a sensor that only changes the resistance across the terminals.
The recommended sensors I've found so far are:
Oil Pressure | ACDelco 12677837 or similar | Found on 00+ H-bodies |
Coolant Temperature | ||
The MAP sensor may also need to be examined to make sure you have the right terminal for the sensor you're using. I would just go recommend going with a Holley 3 bar map.
I would avoid the GM 3 bar MAP that snaps into the L36 manifold though. That MAP sensor was made for Duramax engines and doesn't have the resolution other sensors have. Would not rely on that for a car tuned in speed density.
Programming the Tune
I created a base tune as a starting point for a turbo 3800. You should go through it and make sure your sensors and injector are all correct though.
Base Tune Download
This forum thread contains a lot of pretty good information about how to make the Holley HP EFI and Dominator run on a 3800:
https://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?16249-HP-EFI-On-3800-V6-Engine/page4
One of the biggest issues in getting started that was noted there was how to send the ECU a crank signal.
The solution presented on that page was as follows:
So in review, the GM Series II & Series III 3800 engines will run just fine on the Holley system, with LS coils and using the factory crank & cam sensors. You will need to set the Firing Order to 5,4,3,2,1,6 Use the Custom Ignition Type: Crank - 1 Pulse/Fire - Digital Rising Ignition Reference Angle 75° and using the 3x reluctor on balancer. Cam - Single Pulse - Digital Falling Inductive Delay - 100
A later post on that page mentioned it would also be a good idea to synchronize timing in Holley as well.
https://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?2577-Synchronizing-Ignition-Timing-Holley-EFI
ECU Options Breakdown
Pulled from the bottom of this page: https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/terminator_x/
HARDWARE | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Connectors | 2 | 2 | 6 | 4 | - |
Injector Drivers | 8 | 8 | 12 | 8 | 8 |
Low Impedance Injector Drivers | YES | NO | YES | NO | NO |
Communication via USB Port | YES | NO | YES | NO | NO |
Communication via CAN adapter | NO | YES | NO | YES | YES |
Diagnostic LEDs | NO | YES | NO | YES | NO |
Knock Sensors | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | - |
Enclosure | ALUMINUM | COMPOSITE | ALUMINUM | COMPOSITE | - |
Potted | YES | NO | YES | NO | YES |
DATA LOGGING | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
INTERNAL & EXTERNAL | EXTERNAL ONLY | INTERNAL & EXTERNAL | EXTERNAL ONLY | EXTERNAL ONLY | |
MAP SENSOR | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
EXTERNAL ONLY | INTERNAL 1 BAR, OR EXTERNAL | EXTERNAL ONLY | INTERNAL 1 BAR, OR EXTERNAL | INTERNAL 2.5 BAR | |
WIDEBAND SENSORS | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
Count | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
Bosch 4.2 | YES | NO | YES | NO | NO |
NTK | YES | NO | YES | NO | NO |
Bosch 4.9 | NO | YES | NO | YES | YES |
TOTAL INPUTS (+12V, GND, 5V, FREQ) | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
Count | 4 | 4 | 50 | 4 | VARIES |
+12v | YES | YES | YES | YES | NO |
Ground | YES | YES | YES | YES | 2 |
+5v Sensor | YES | YES | YES | YES | 3* - SS ONLY |
Frequency | YES | YES | YES | YES | NO |
Thermistor | YES | NO | YES | NO | NO |
+20v | YES | NO | YES | NO | NO |
Digital Speed | NO | NO | YES | NO | NO |
Customizable Software Inputs | 80 | 20 | 80 | 20 | NO |
A/C Shutdown | YES | YES | YES | YES | NO |
TOTAL OUTPUTS (GND, PWM-) | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
Count | 4 | 4 | 36 | 4 | VARIES |
+12v | YES | NO | YES | NO | NO |
PWM+ | YES | NO | YES | NO | NO |
Ground | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
PWM- | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Customizable Software Outputs | 62 | 20 | 62 | 20 | NO |
Dual Fans | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Secondary Fuel Pump | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
IAC Kick | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Non-Electronic Trans TCC Control | YES | YES | YES | YES | NO |
LOAD SENSING | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
VE | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Speed Density | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Alpha-N | YES | YES | YES | YES | NO |
Combo | YES | YES | YES | YES | NO |
BOOST CONTROL | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
MAP and Dome Control | YES | NO | YES | NO | NO |
Dome Control | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Boost vs Time | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Boost vs RPM | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Boost vs Speed | YES | YES | YES | YES | NO |
Boost vs Gear | YES | YES | YES | YES | NO |
Boost Builder | YES | NO | YES | NO | NO |
Boost Safeties | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
NITROUS STAGES | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
Wet Non-Progressive | 8 | 1 | 8 | 1 | 1 |
Wet Progressive | 8 | 1 | 8 | 1 | 1 |
Dry Non Progressive | 8 | 1 | 8 | 1 | 1 |
Dry Progressive | 8 | 1 | 8 | 1 | 1 |
GPOs | 8 | 1 | 8 | 1 | NO |
Rich/Lean Safeties | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Closed Loop to New Target | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Advanced Input Strategies | YES | NO | YES | NO | NO |
ADVANCED TABLES | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
1D | 8 | 4 | 8 | 4 | 4 |
1D Per Gear | 8 | 1 | 8 | 1 | NO |
2D | 8 | 4 | 8 | 4 | 2 |
2D Per Gear | 8 | 1 | 8 | 1 | NO |
TRACTION CONTROL | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
YES | NO | YES | NO | NO | |
WATER/METH | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
YES | NO | YES | NO | NO | |
STAGING ASSIST | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
YES | YES | YES | YES | NO | |
DRIVE BY WIRE | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
Single Throttle Body | NO | NO | YES | YES | NO |
Dual Throttle Body | NO | NO | YES | NO | NO |
TRANSMISSION CONTROL | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
GM 4L60/4L70/4L80 | NO | NO | YES | YES | NO |
Ford AODE/4R70W | NO | NO | YES | YES | NO |
ACCESSORIES | HP | TERMINATOR X | DOMINATOR | TERMINATOR X MAX | SNIPER TBI |
7” Digital Dash | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
Pro-Dash | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
CAN Modules (VVT, etc) | YES | YES | YES | YES | NO |
Analog Gauges | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |